Certification and Class Revitalization

[Iken]

• Agents, from a weapon kit perspective, aren't always better than regular troopers or even ARC. You can definitely game the system and get the Westar M5, Bacta Injector, Grappling Hook, and a Health Boost, but not every agent opts for the big money, big butt route. Aside from that Agents can't even acquire the Dual DC-17 Pistols nor do they have as much flexibility or freedom. The only thing that these big-spending Agents have on SF is the Health boost, or potentially the Jetpack and even then it's not like we're a PvP oriented server. We're here to enjoy ourselves and play fun Star Wars shoot game.

• With this in mind, there's no need to cripple them with unnecessary restrictions on ordnance. So what if they pulled out their wallet and gave the server an additional $40, $50, or $60 dollars? They potentially wanted to play with another Class or just support the server while getting a few neat perks. They're still players and they should be able to enjoy piloting an ARC-170, an AT-TE, or picking up a Z6, even if they would be the last pick for such opportunities.

• If Agents don't follow guidelines, there are consequences. Warning them, blacklisting them, etc. Just like troopers. A few bad apples does not define every single person in a group, and the entire group should not be punished due to the actions of a select few individuals.

• The main issue I have with Agents getting regular ordinances is they don't have classes. Whereas a trooper would be theatrically restricted to using a certain ordinance on a certain class, agents don't suffer from that. Leaving you with the possibility of an OOM for example that has a sniper, e5, grapple or jetpack, and a Z-6. I think it's important to draw the line so someone who doesn't have the money or doesn't want to dish it out doesn't feel like they need to purchase an agent.

• When it comes to Agents piloting, I had dealt with problems over and over with them not listening, following the guidelines set, or various issues. It's important to note that agents are a small group of people, so what may seem like a small minority creating the problems, is actually most of the agents. After hearing complaints seeing the issues and them continuing with future agents. I just barred them from getting pilot certs, maybe a little brash, but it wasn't something I wanted to keep dealing with. I am willing to give them a second chance with Helix, I'll just come up with some separate guidelines.
• I've always been under the assumption since I joined the server that Jedi/Agents weren't allowed to get certs but the rules became laxer as time moved on. I've let Jedi get Ground Pilot with certain rules (AT-RT & BARC Speeder Only), but not air pilot as there aren't any ships for them to fly.

In my opinion, Agents really need to be reworked and have their own set of weapons that are unique to them and only them so we don't have these weird issues (gadgets are whatever), and a nerf to the HP/Armor with the extra HP.

 

[Flare]

• The main issue I have with Agents getting regular ordinances is they don't have classes. Whereas a trooper would be theatrically restricted to using a certain ordinance on a certain class, agents don't suffer from that. Leaving you with the possibility of an OOM for example that has a sniper, e5, grapple or jetpack, and a Z-6. I think it's important to draw the line so someone who doesn't have the money or doesn't want to dish it out doesn't feel like they need to purchase an agent.

• When it comes to Agents piloting, I had dealt with problems over and over with them not listening, following the guidelines set, or various issues. It's important to note that agents are a small group of people, so what may seem like a small minority creating the problems, is actually most of the agents. After hearing complaints seeing the issues and them continuing with future agents. I just barred them from getting pilot certs, maybe a little brash, but it wasn't something I wanted to keep dealing with. I am willing to give them a second chance with Helix, I'll just come up with some separate guidelines.
• I've always been under the assumption since I joined the server that Jedi/Agents weren't allowed to get certs but the rules became laxer as time moved on. I've let Jedi get Ground Pilot with certain rules (AT-RT & BARC Speeder Only), but not air pilot as there aren't any ships for them to fly.

In my opinion, Agents really need to be reworked and have their own set of weapons that are unique to them and only them so we don't have these weird issues (gadgets are whatever), and a nerf to the HP/Armor with the extra HP.

• For sure Agents don't have restrictions like troopers do when it comes to having specific classes, but we haven't even had the restriction of only being able to use X Ordnance on a certain class for a long ass time. Someone on the Recon class could have the Valken and Z-6 and nobody would care.

• Nobody feels like they need to shell out money because the OOM or the Mandalorian did "/c I" in comms faster than you so they could have the Z-6 for the event.

• Even if it's most of the Agents causing you issues, there shouldn't be a giant blanket slapped over the entire group and any future members that say "Yeah, you don't get to use any of the Certs." Punishments should be handed out to individuals, banning every single person from a group because you've had bad experiences from the people you've so far come across is frankly, just lazy.

Slashing the ability to use certifications just makes people want to donate/play the thing they donated for less. For the most part, Agents are just tankier troopers, and in the case of OOMs, they get a shitty, outdated sniper, a carbine that pales in comparison to the DC-15s, and an LMG that just barely meets the standards of the DC-15a, and the character itself shares the same stats as a default class trooper.

 

[orphanator]

• For sure Agents don't have restrictions like troopers do when it comes to having specific classes, but we haven't even had the restriction of only being able to use X Ordnance on a certain class for a long ass time. Someone on the Recon class could have the Valken and Z-6 and nobody would care.

• Nobody feels like they need to shell out money because the OOM or the Mandalorian did "/c I" in comms faster than you so they could have the Z-6 for the event.

• Even if it's most of the Agents causing you issues, there shouldn't be a giant blanket slapped over the entire group and any future members that say "Yeah, you don't get to use any of the Certs." Punishments should be handed out to individuals, banning every single person from a group because you've had bad experiences from the people you've so far come across is frankly, just lazy.

Slashing the ability to use certifications just makes people want to donate or play the thing they donated for less. For the most part, Agents are just tankier troopers, and in the case of OOMs, they get a shitty, outdated sniper, a carbine that pales in comparison to the DC-15s, and an LMG that just barely meets the standards of the DC-15a, and the character itself shares the same stats as a default class trooper.

Piggybacking off of this, agents are people are paying to be normies who can’t rank up, certs give them some semblance of progression at least. Idc about the armor or anything. Jedi use to be literal unkillable monsters who could ya Yeet themselves across the map then make anything near them wish they were a pokemaine T3 sub as it would be less painful than the flattening that was coming. Agents still run back to the main force like a dog running away from fire crackers, after over extending and getting their armor ripped to shreds. It’s a good system. They get some freedom to do what they want, but noting event ruining.

 

[Storm11]

As someone who literally pulled an agent character and did not get fully suited out for a Clone Trooper, nor wish to have one. Idc about certs so much, but I really do feel like we miss out when our buddies are doing something and you join in, if anything for the experiences and comradely, before I never had a problem going to cert training. Did tankers, scrabbling, heavy, and recon. Good amount of fun just to participate with you guys. Then We stopped being allowed to partake in anything (definitely would repeat certain things if nothing else was going on) it kinda showed us missing out on a large amount of gameplay just cause we didn’t particularly want to have a Clone. When I jumped in (kinda excited to get back into it with the update and see some old faces tbh) with you boys during events. I’d always be the last guy to volenteer for that stuff because it’s used to empower clones.we’re auxiliaries at the end of the day, but understanding your job does add a certain layer of appreciation for it and the server in general. Everything aside from that I got to say, has already been said. Just wanted to put one individuals perspective in here

 

[Iken]

• For sure Agents don't have restrictions like troopers do when it comes to having specific classes, but we haven't even had the restriction of only being able to use X Ordnance on a certain class for a long ass time. Someone on the Recon class could have the Valken and Z-6 and nobody would care.

This is a fair point and is mostly case by case with some FMs, I do partially think it would be nice to get back to the system of ordinance being used only on certain classes, and then stuff like the DLT, Ion, etc. can be used on whatever for some “balance,” or a range of classes to use certain ordinance so you don’t have a recon trooper sitting at the back of the map holding up a Z-6 where a Heavy, CE, or a reacher could make better use of it.

• Nobody feels like they need to shell out money because the OOM or the Mandalorian did "/c I" in comms faster than you so they could have the Z-6 for the event.

I think you kinda missed what I was trying to say partially due to poor wording, but it’s more along the lines of, of an agent with an already diverse kit and then a Z-6 on top of that is much better than a heavy with a Z-6 for example. Not anything to do with who said I in comms faster.

• Even if it's most of the Agents causing you issues, there shouldn't be a giant blanket slapped over the entire group and any future members that say "Yeah, you don't get to use any of the Certs." Punishments should be handed out to individuals, banning every single person from a group because you've had bad experiences from the people you've so far come across is frankly, just lazy.

It was for sure lazy not gonna deny that, but I had other things I would rather spend my time on then dealing with agents misusing pilot certs. At the time it was much easier to just outright bar them from pilot certs and be done with it, and then come back to it a later date. Just had never gotten any solid reasoning or anything that compelled me to change it. Also just want to make it clear that I didn’t keep Agents from other certs, that’s definitely not something I can do. I don’t know if that was a misunderstanding or just your wording. Regardless that’s completely irrelevant as I said I would take a second look at it and come up with something separate for Agents.

Piggybacking off of this, agents are people are paying to be normies who can’t rank up, certs give them some semblance of progression at least. Idc about the armor or anything. Jedi use to be literal unkillable monsters who could ya Yeet themselves across the map then make anything near them wish they were a pokemaine T3 sub as it would be less painful than the flattening that was coming. Agents still run back to the main force like a dog running away from fire crackers, after over extending and getting their armor ripped to shreds. It’s a good system. They get some freedom to do what they want, but noting event ruining.

I wish I could agree with your last part about agents, but from what I usually see agents jet pack around the main enemy force drawing 70% of their fire for a few minutes and then just die. It’s not something I really like seeing but if the majority don’t care then whatever.



I still thinking agents need some real change with load outs, armor and hp pools, and a little bit more structure, so agents aren't some weird gray area. I would rather agents be their own dedicated thing similar to Jedi, where there is much less overlap with clones. Moving further it would be more productive to look at the future of agents rather than what was.

 

[Chevy]

forgive me since idk how to use this thread since im a lazy ass and im also a dumbass

"I think you kinda missed what I was trying to say partially due to poor wording, but it’s more along the lines of, of an agent with an already diverse kit and then a Z-6 on top of that is much better than a heavy with a Z-6 for example. Not anything to do with who said I in comms faster."- Iken

Agents do have a good kit. But The same argument can be made for SF. I aint shitting on SF or anything. But SF have very strong kits. I mean when your a RC do you really need a z6? Im not saying they shouldnt be able to take it but I think it wouldnt be fair to hand them out like that.
BUT I need to say its not like SF dropped like 50 bucks to get good shit (nothing wrong with doing that) they worked their asses off for their ARC or RC Title. So it can be seen as unfair to compare the two.

"It was for sure lazy not gonna deny that, but I had other things I would rather spend my time on then dealing with agents misusing pilot certs. At the time it was much easier to just outright bar them from pilot certs and be done with it, and then come back to it a later date. Just had never gotten any solid reasoning or anything that compelled me to change it. Also just want to make it clear that I didn’t keep Agents from other certs, that’s definitely not something I can do. I don’t know if that was a misunderstanding or just your wording. Regardless that’s completely irrelevant as I said I would take a second look at it and come up with something separate for Agents."- Iken

Now if you can come up with something so that Agents can still use ground/flying ships that would be really nice. Since we dont have anything to use. And about the other certs that are/arent restricted, I think it would have been better said if we said that Agents shouldn't be restricted to most certs. The big one would be pilot but like you said you are working on that. The other certs that Agents should at LEAST be able to get are Slicing, Heavy. I mean Slicing isnt a big brained thing and if you somehow get blacklisted off slicing I think you need help. Slcing is such a small thing it shouldnt be a issue for agents to use. For Heavy I think it would be fine if agents got a z6 every now and then as long as other troopers dont take it or cant use it. Now thats as far as I would go for certs but if you want to stretch it out to were Agents could even do Med,EOD,ENG RP. But without the tools you use for battle.

"I wish I could agree with your last part about agents, but from what I usually see agents jet pack around the main enemy force drawing 70% of their fire for a few minutes and then just die. It’s not something I really like seeing but if the majority don’t care then whatever."- iken

Really cant say anything because I do this every event on my OOM. But I promise you most of Agent players ( the two of us ) wont do the funny jetpack strat if we have something heavy.

"I still thinking agents need some real change with load outs, armor and hp pools, and a little bit more structure, so agents aren't some weird gray area. I would rather agents be their own dedicated thing similar to Jedi, where there is much less overlap with clones. Moving further it would be more productive to look at the future of agents rather than what was."-iken

Yeah it would be neat if we were our own thing. But as of now there aint a lot of us playing on agents. So i dont know if that would ruin the chances of being our own thing. But like you said we should look into the future of agents. and in all honesty we should just make a new thread about agent fixes or whatever so we dont clog this thread about certs anymore.

In the end of the day. I just want to be able to do the classes, and sometimes even use Ships,Slicers or heavy guns. But while the server is updating with changes its not something we can try out. But when the new shit comes out i think we really need to take a look into this.

 

[Flare]

seems like the common ground here is that agents should be able to use all the certs, but they'd be last priority, only getting stuff if none of the troopers want it.

 

[BenCloneTrooper]

Maybe add a stun fire mode to certain guns (Like the DC-15s and DC-17) and make that option restricted to a cert which can be taken away if it is abused. It could rag doll someone if they were below a certain amount of health and would make it so that there isn’t a need to do “/rp sets weapon to stun”